Tag Archives: divine nature

They Call Me Trinity

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Discussions about the divine, as we’ve seen can be problematic. To be honest, I’m not fond of non-biblical terms like “trinity” nor am I fully up to date about all the different opinions out there. I’ve already shown that I believe Jesus to be God, but I don’t believe Jesus to be the Father. Passages like Romans 8:9-11 help me see this:

“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.” (Romans 8:9-11)

Who lives in us? Is it the Spirit? Christ? The Spirit of Christ? The Spirit of God? The Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead? The answer, of course, is YES. Jesus is God and lives in us. He’s not the Father; Paul seems to avoid such language. Yet, they are both God.

Romans 8 shows us that the Spirit is also in the equation. We also see that in other passages, like the letters to the 7 churches in Revelation. The letters are clearly from Jesus, yet each letter ends with an urge for the readers to hear what the Spirit had to say to the churches. Again, no New Testament writer would say that the Spirit had been crucified nor that the Spirit was the Father. Yet the Spirit is shown to be divine.

No, I can’t explain it. Not fully. I can’t explain God’s eternal nature either. I can’t explain how He can hear thousands of people praying to Him in dozens of different languages. I can’t explain lots of things about God. As I’ve said before, I like it that way. I want a God who is bigger than I. One I can’t completely wrap my thoughts around. That’s my God.

The identity of Jesus, Pt. 3

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“I have often seen with what pleasure the Arian dwells upon the words “first born of every creature;” “the beginning of the creation of God.” And how seldom, and with what reluctance, he quotes “I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last;” “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.” Again, the Socinian emphasizes with great force upon the words “the man Christ Jesus;” but never dwells with delight upon this sentence, “Who being in the form of God, did not think it robbery to be like God.” The Trinitarian rejoices that “there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit, and that these three are one;” that Jesus said, “I and my Father are one,” &c. But seldom does he quote on this subject the texts on which the Arian and Socinian dwell with pleasure. Not one of them will quote with equal pleasure, or readiness every thing said on this subject; and had they the liberty they would trim and improve the apostles’ style to suit their respective theories. (Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, March 1827)

Guess what: the subject of Jesus’ identity is not an easy one. Devout, godly, scholarly men have arrived at very different conclusions on the subject. It’s a mistake to claim that the conclusions are obvious.

It’s my belief that it should be hard to fully understand God. I talked about that in my post “My God Can Beat Up Your God.” It doesn’t bother me that I can’t fully understand the relationship between Jesus and the Father.

There are passages that directly say that Jesus is God. We have to deal with that on some level. I have heard people try to claim that “Jesus is divine” or “Jesus is a deity,” while maintaining that He isn’t God. Folks, that’s called polytheism, and we definitely don’t want to go there. There is one God and one Lord.

I think that Philippians 2 sheds some light on the subject. Look at verses 5-12:

“Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant,being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Philippians 2:5-11)

Jesus was equal with God before His incarnation. He was willing to take on the form of a servant, taking human form. That’s why Jesus can be described as God’s servant, as being submissive to God. That’s why He was able to be tempted, why He experienced all the limitations of being human. That’s why He could pray to His Father. The Word became flesh.

Still, Jesus isn’t the Father. They are not exactly the same, yet they are one. How do we fully explain that? We don’t. Not now, not in our present, finite state. We, as humans, are incapable of fully understanding God. We can speculate and theorize, but the only things we can say with complete confidence are the things directly stated in Scripture.

I’ve been quoting Stone and Campbell, mostly out of curiosity. They had very different views on the subject, but both agreed that the answer was to limit ourselves to what the Bible says.

What would happen if we did that?

The identity of Jesus, Pt. 2

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jesus“Hence we have the Father, Son and Holy Spirit equally divine, though personally distinct from each other. We have in fact, but one God, one Lord, one Holy Spirit; yet these are equally possessed of one and of the same divine nature.” (Alexander Campbell, The Christian System) From early times, many have affirmed that Jesus was “God made flesh.” The book The Da Vinci Code makes the claim that this belief is only as old as the Nicene Council of 325 A.D., yet we have older documents that refer to this doctrine. The Latin theologian Tertullian even used the term “trinity” to describe the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he lived about 100 years before the writing of the Nicene creed.

What is of interest to us, of course, is what the Bible says. Here’s a few arguments that are presented in favor of Jesus being “God made flesh”:

Direct statements in Scripture such as John 1:1; John 1:18; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8; 2 Peter 1:1

Jesus accepted worship, while maintaining that we should worship God alone.

The Father and Jesus are often referred to in an interchangeable way:

Romans 8:9-11. Who lives in us? “the Spirit of God,” “the Spirit of Christ,” “Christ” “the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead,” “his Spirit”

In Revelation, we have these passages:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)

“I am the First and the Last.” (Revelation 1:17 — Jesus speaking)

“He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.” (Revelation 21:6-7)

“Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End… I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” (Revelation 22:12-16)

Those around Jesus understood Him to be describing Himself as God, so much so that the Jews tried to kill Him for that very thing!

The apostle Thomas called Jesus “my Lord and my God” after Jesus’ resurrection.

I’ll open the floor for other arguments and comments on these.

The identity of Jesus

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“Revelation no where declares that there are three persons of the same substance in the one only God; and it is universally acknowledged to be above reason” (Barton W. Stone, Address to the Christian Churches, 2nd Edition [1821])

From the early years of the church, the question of Jesus’ identity has been a difficult one for Christians. Heresies arose which contended that Jesus was not truly human or that “Christ” came upon Jesus at his baptism and left him before the cross. Others, seeing that some saw Jesus as being one with the Father, called their opponents “Father-killers,” saying that they would portray the Father as being nailed to the cross.

In modern times, men have more problems with the divinity of Jesus. Within the church, many have rejected the doctrine of the Trinity, refusing to see Jesus as God incarnate. The arguments presented tend to be:

  • The Bible teaches that there is only one God; if Jesus is God, then there is more than one God.
  • Jesus, while on earth, spoke of the Father as being superior. He presented himself as one who did what the Father told him to do.
  • Jesus was tempted, while James tells us that God cannot be tempted.
  • Jesus prayed to the Father while on earth. He spoke of the Father knowing things that he did not. He continually spoke of God in the third person.
  • The Bible speaks of Jesus as being created or begotten, not as an eternal being.

I’ll try to present the other side in my next post. For now, I’d like to know if there are other arguments that I’ve missed. These are the main ones that I have heard. (If you didn’t read the previous post, please do so before commenting!)