Things get interesting as we continue to analyze Romans 13:1-7. The next sentence says: “For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.” (Romans 13:1)
“Authority” here is exousia. That word is sometimes translated as “right” or “liberty,” and some feel that it should be here. I think “authorities” or “powers” is correct in this context. All authority, all power is eventually from God.
The second part of this sentence is a little more difficult. In his commentary on Acts, J.W. McGarvey commented on this verse (when discussing Acts 13:48):
The word in question is a generic term, having no single word in English to fully represent it. Its generic sense is best represented by our phrase, set in order. In its various specific applications, however, we have single terms which accurately represent it. Thus, when Jesus etaxato set in order a certain mountain in Galilee as a place to meet his disciples, or the Jews in Rome taxamenoi set in order a day to meet Paul,} we best express the idea by appointed. But when Paul [at Romans 13:1] says of civil rulers that “the existing authorities tetagmenai eisin were set in order by God,” he does not intend to affirm that God had appointed those rulers, but merely asserts his general providence in their existence and arrangement. The idea is best expressed in English by using the phrase set in order, or by saying they were arranged by God.
From what I can tell, the verb translated “ordained” can refer to established, appointed or set in place, as well as ordered. This verse is reminding the Romans that no matter what seems to be, it is God that is ultimately in control.
We also need to recognize that the verse is talking about the powers in existence at that moment. We may be able to extrapolate that to refer to all authorities at all times, but the initial meaning is limited. The “powers that be,” the rules in power at that moment were there because God wanted them to be there. It was right for Christians to submit to these authorities because God had them there for a reason.
At least at this point, we aren’t ready to make this a universal application. And there is a lot more to be said about this passage. Let’s take it one step at a time.
Input, please. What are your thoughts so far?
It is always difficult when we start point in time theology. I would just say that the idea is universal while the situation is specific. Without some universal idea they wouldn’t make the decision they do.
I just hear people use point in time theology to say almost everything is acceptable.
I will wait for further posts.
Thanks Darin. I agree that starting with point in time theology can be problematic in many cases. I guess part of my reason for beginning that way is what I said the other day about everyone limiting this passage in some way.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
We all limit. I agree. I just think we over limit today is all. I’m not sure that is the right way to say it.
Point in time theology would allow women to speak in the assembly
and fully participate wouldn’t it?
Just asking.
Look at the grammar of verse 1. Why does Paul express things the way he does? That’s a weird way to say things just because: “the powers that exist.”
That’s what points to “point in time” theology.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
To say that God is in control, of what? Is he in control of the universe?
He is the Creator God. But in my opinion, that is where it ends. Does he stop asteroids from hitting the earth? Does he stop Su namis?
Did he stop Hitler from exterminating Jews? Things in motion are not stopped by God. Things in motion remain in motion til it hits something or is destroyed. As far as man is concerned, he allows free will to take place. It is up to us to either make one choice or another.
I don’t believe that God interecedes with man and this physical world.
His world is the spiritual world and that is where his sphere of influence lies…..its just my opinion. The reason the bible influences us is because we allow it to influence us….
To say that God is in control is not to say that he moves every molecule of creation, though some would argue that. I don’t even believe that he moves men around like chess pieces.
I believe that God has ultimate control. He has given men certain freedom to act in this world, yet there are limits. Satan has control over this world at present, yet God sets boundaries around what he can do.
I also believe that God works in this world in answer to prayer. Do we always see that activity? No. Do we always understand his purposes? No. Have I seen things change in response to prayer? Yes.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
How a man is convicted to change his behavior, is in fact a matter of fact.
By that I mean that if I want to change my behavior because of the threat of losing someone close, is in fact my choice. Not God moving me to conviction. If I believe that, then I will say to people that God moved me. Its my choice to say that. The reality may be that I don’t want to pay child support, alimony, change jobs, excetera or stand in front of my congregation and ask for forgiveness. I have seen that happen. I don’t think the Christian family wants to be short sided and claim and blame on everything that happens whether or not God intervenes, but they do.
To say that God intervened in giving me a job, house and money, but not caring for the poor, sick and needy is a sham put on us by some
church leaders in this country. God is not a respector of persons.
I have also heard “God moves in mysterious ways” or “In God’s time not your time” or “We can’t know the mind of God.” I could go on and on with platitudes of what I have heard over many years of church going. Isn’t reading the Bible understanding the mind of God?
Tim: my response to your last statement is this. If just one prayer is answered by God then what is said in the bible is not true. The bible is not true in respect to what I just said. Could it be that the things prayed for would happen anyway even if the prayer wasn’t given?
If the Muslims are praying to something other than what we are praying to why do they say their prayers are answered as well?
Wow, H.B.! It’s hard to know where to start. If God doesn’t answer prayer, just about everything in the Bible is untrue. It’s that simple.
Even your man Paul asks people to pray, looking for a specific result. Why do that, if God doesn’t answer prayer?
The fact that some people speak wrongly about prayer only proves that they have a shallow understanding, not that prayer is ineffective.
As to knowing the mind of God, Paul also speaks to that (with you I have to quote Paul; with Laymond, Paul doesn’t count. It’s hard to keep track of who believes what):
“Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.” (Romans 11:33-36)
We are humans. We cannot completely fathom the infinite God with our finite minds.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
Is there any way to take this passage seriously and get to the Declaration of Independence?
Starting with our “self evident” “truths” as a foundation, it is probably difficult to build to a good understanding of this passage.
Jay A.,
I for one do not believe Christians can take Romans 13 seriously and make a declaration of independence much less lead a revolutionary war against a government in support of said declaration. Thus I always find it interesting to hear so-called “conservative” Christians, who claim to take the entire Bible as inerrant and authoritative, praise the founding fathers of America for their revolutionary leadership.
…oh yeah, I forgot, in addition to that inerrant and authoritative business about scripture is also that selective business whereby we are free to pick and choose which scriptures we take seriously and which scriptures are just irrelevant…like Romans 13, the Sermon on the Mount (except for Matt 6.33 when it is employed to support a gospel of health and wealth) :-).
Grace and peace,
Rex
Tim: I don’t agree with the comment “if God doesn’t answer prayer just about everything in the Bible is untrue.” If I give my son a phone and say to him, just let me know what you need and I will make sure you get it. He has a direct link to me, right? because I gave him a direct link to me doesnt’t mean that you have one also. right? I have to give you a direct link to me so you can have things that you need or want too. Why do we need more than what he gave me through the death, burial and ressurection of our Lord. I used to pray for things, until I realized that it is of no consequence. I have all that I need. Remember we are just passing thru this life. What befalls us in this life is circumstances, sometimes within our control, some not.
Going back to the analogy of my son, God did the same thing with Israel, no Gentiles were recieving any blessings. No one is entitled to anything but Grace. You can pray till your blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is GRACE is all that we need. I guess you can say one thing about me. I don’t ask God for anything, I thank Him for his grace. That also includes no repentance, no asking forgiveness, not asking for health, wealth and prosperity. I am not Catholic so I don’t have him still on the cross. Since it was 2000 years ago when he did this, he washed us a long time ago and once and done is how I look at it. Just my opinion and thanks for letting me share……..
All right, here’s a sampling of the verses where Paul tells believers to pray. I won’t include the multiple verses where he describes them praying nor describes his own prayer life:
Note that Paul tells them to ask for specific things, to present requests, etc. We are sons of God; why would we not share our desires with our Father?
If God doesn’t answer prayer just about everything in the Bible is untrue. It’s all over the New Testament. If God doesn’t answer prayer as he has said, why should we trust him to give us salvation, as he said he would?
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
My perspective is pretty basic. If we are made in God’s image, we always think of ourselves and the trinity. That is what the Catholics started and the protestants continued. Since we can’t see God, and live, hence the burning bush, Christ’s transfiguration, bright energy, Paul’s vision, bright light and being blinded. This ads up to Created energy. We now know that energy is what keeps us alive. Energy is what keeps our hearts beating. Energy is what we are and God is energy, hence we are like God. We are God like. Now why do we pray? Why do we need to pray? I mean what is the purpose? If we understand that we are created energy and that we live forever, and we are Godlike, we are connected with the Creator. I think the writers of the bible tried the best they could to explain what God was. I surely don’t want to throw away what i know about the universe, about the human body and the connection we have with the Creator. I don’t need to pray to understand this concept, Do I?
Let’s see.
Every follower of God in the Bible prayed. God answered their prayers.
Jesus needed to pray. God answered his prayers.
Jesus taught his followers to pray. Said God would answer their prayers.
The apostles needed to pray. God answered their prayers.
Paul needed to pray. God answered his prayer.
Paul taught Christians to pray. Said God answered their prayers.
Personally, I am an imitator of Christ. I follow the example of his apostles. I follow their teachings.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
Tim: Those are some big shoes to fill, or should I say those are big sandles, to step into. Your comment, I am an imitator of Christ, I follow the example of his apostles. I follow their teachings. My question is why?
I can say for sure, in my life when I tried to do that, I have felt, guilt, remorse, shame, bitterness, depression, unhappiness and futility. Good luck in your attempt to attain perfection.
This yoke you have placed around your neck, thank God is not around mine.
Yes, I seek to fill big shoes, walking in huge footsteps. But I am not alone. God’s Holy Spirit lives within me. Every day he makes me more and more like Jesus. Christ is in me, and as I walk in the light, his blood continually cleanses me of all sin.
Why does Leviticus say “Be holy as I am holy,” even as it makes provision for forgiving sin? Because we strive for holiness, yet at the same time recognize that only God can make us holy.
Why do I imitate Christ? That’s what the word Christian means. Christlike.
I’m sorry that you went through such a time. I’m guessing you were into some sort of works-based idea of salvation.
The yoke I have taken easy and the burden is light.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
My best friend has two sons: one just turned six and the other is four.
The four-year old watches his big brother like a hawk. He tries to walk like him, he talks like him, eats like him. In other words, he imitates him.
He doesn’t feel guilty or ashamed when his brother runs faster than him.
He doesn’t feel remorse or bitterness when his brother talks too fast for him to imitate.
He certainly hasn’t shown any signs of throwing his hands up in futility when his brother does a bike trick that he can’t do yet.
I guess this imitation thing can work in different ways – that’s why Paul told his friends in Corinth NOT TO imitate him in any old way they could come up with, but rather to imitate him in just the same way that he imitated Christ – out of a deep and passionate love and a dream that one day Paul would be just like his big brother Jesus.
aaahhhh……deism…..alive and well
ahhh….deism….the faith of our Founding Fathers..
Keep the FAITH!