The rise of the printing press corresponded with a decline in community Bible study. The change wasn’t immediate, but it was a major shift. For centuries, the Bible had been read and studied in groups. In fact, the Bible was originally written to be read aloud, which is why the phrase “hear the word of the Lord” is used so often. When we arrive to the latter part of the 20th century, a large part of Bible study is carried on by individuals in isolation from others.
When the Bible was read and discussed in a community setting, individual opinions were analyzed by the group. While this did not lead to complete consensus, it did keep many strange ideas in check. A certain amount of agreement would be expected, more than what occurs when each is studying on his own.
The proliferation of Bibles that followed the printing press was accompanied by a proliferation of diverse doctrines. One can only assume that community study would have prevented some of the divisions that later occurred. As one commenter observed, while we enjoy the freedoms we have as regards Bible study, we have to recognize the negative aspects of that freedom as well.
” negative aspects of that freedom” freedom to read the bible, and draw our own conclusions.
Tim , that concludes (I believe) that everything was taught correctly by those who had access to the word before the distribution of it to all who wished to read.
And in my opinion the academics have fought to recall the bible, by saying “You just can’t understand it, you need a smart person like me to tell you what is said, and that was never more prevalent, than today. New versions changed to accommodate new ideas, When I was younger, I never understood why the older generation fought being affiliated with institutes of higher learning, until one day a wise elder explained, “I am afraid they will have more influence on the church, than the church will have on them” I understand what he was talking about now.
Hmm… curious if you really think that’s what I’m saying, Laymond.
Hopefully, anyone that has followed this blog much knows that’s far from my views. I do see a need for balance, however. We study individually, but check our conclusions with the community. That is, we should expect that: (1) someone else sees things as we do; or (2) we get affirmation from other Christians that ours is a plausible interpretation.
That’s what I’m trying to do on this blog. I lay out ideas and hope to get discussion on them. There have been times when I’ve had to back up and say, “You know what… I was wrong about what I said the other day.” Those are times I actually look forward to, because those are times that I feel that I am growing in understanding.
I don’t share your anti-academic outlook. Neither should we enthrone scholars nor fear them. Like all others, their statements should be weighed by the community at large. As I said, we enjoy a freedom as regards Bible study, but should be aware of the negative aspects of that freedom. That goes for “scholars” as well.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
Tim,
I have come almost to the opposite ordering of study. Rather than first studying on my own and then bringing it to the community, I’m beginning to be swayed towards the idea that the community should agree to:
1st – pray and read together;
2nd – pray and discuss what’s been read;
3rd – go home, pray, study, and meditate on what the community is reading;
4th – come back together, pray, read, share, and discuss.
Does that make any sense? I mean, can you see why I think it is qualitatively different from the “individual study first” model?
Nick,
I would love to see that put in practice. I haven’t been in a situation to be able to do something like that since my college days.
I think there is also room, however, for different people to be studying and reflecting on different things. We come together and share the things God has put in our path and Scriptures God has placed on our heart.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
Tim, I just don’t see the negative aspects, or the down side to giving every person in the world, the word of God.The only downside I see is for the intellectual crowd that might have had their influence on the masses downgraded .
“I don’t share your anti-academic outlook.” My outlook only in spiritual or church matters. Can you say that places like Harding, Pepperdine and ACU have not attempted and have accomplished to some extent to push their founders opinion, and even moved away from the movement that founded the CoC. and the two men who instigated that movement.
I believe the academics bear a great responsibility for the division in the church. My opinion. and they are still trying. and they are not only dividing they probably will destroy.
Tim- I agree whole-heartedly with you that there is great strength in study within a community. While personal, individual Bible study has value as well we probably overvalue it. Our culture strongly emphasizes individualism and we often find ourselves (like right now) staring at a computer monitor in a room all alone, “studying” the Bible. It is hard to call this the same thing as what 1st Century Christians did- sitting in a group, listening to a reader, read aloud a copy of one of Paul’s letters, and questioning and discussing the meaning of the letter together. Even our modern practice of preaching and the way we conduct Gospel meetings or lectureships is a distant cry from this 1st Century Bible Study.
Periodically I try to use as a spiritual discipline “Group Lectio Divina” (Sacred Reading) in which you read a text together, meditate aloud on it together, pray about it together, and contemplate the application of the text together. When I have practiced this discipline, I have never had any of the participants leave untouched by the power of God. It really is amazing how God speaks to us through his Word in community.
Don’t take me wrong, I still like being alone with my Bibles, books, and computers as I try to unravel the mysteries of God’s word. But I have to admit that at least on one level, basic Bible study is centered around community, not not me and my abilities. Thanks for the reminder.
It would be wonferful if we could have “community” Bible-studies in the public community where no one tried to push their agenda but instead everyone read the passage and engaged in open dialogue about its immplications, questions they have, the challenges the scripture poses to us, etc…?
As for blaming the Academies for division…First, let’s remember that both Jesus and Paul caused quite a bit of division when they refused to compromise the gospel to the expectations of the Jews. Second, having grown up in a congregation that split 2-3 times (depending on how one looks at it), those splits were all driven by the people who had to have it their way. They had nothing to do with theology/doctrine. I think it is easy to blame the Universities/Academies for division but that accusation does not hold much merit. Plus, such an accusation misses all the good…all the great missions and ministries that have been started and led by those who graduated from these institutions. Is the responsibility of the academy to produce clones of a former generation or leaders who grounded in the gospel rather than tradition? Some wish for the former and that is why there is friction at times and that is nothing new under the sun. Great Restoration leaders like Harding, Lipscomb, McGarvey, etc… caused plenty of friction themselves and had they not, they would not have been good leaders because good leaders lead and anytime a leader leads there will be someone who disagrees.
Grace and peace,
Rex
Two of the best educated men of their day.
Laymond, with great freedom comes great responsibility. When you give every person on Earth the Bible, and most of those people reject Jesus Christ as Lord, what do you think those people will do with the Word of God?
Also, when you give each person a Bible, they start to believe it is their Bible, to do with what they want. Who needs other people, I’ve got my Bible? Who cares if anyone agrees with me? I’ve got my Bible, and it is MY Bible to interpret however I wish.
And about the anti-intellectual stuff… you wouldn’t even have an English bible to pound against the dangers of spiritual people being intellectual unless those very intellectual people were willing to TRANSLATE IT for you. Thankfully, they’re more gracious towards you than you are towards them.
“Two of the best educated men of their day.”
My point exactly, no matter what, there will always be someone come along claiming to be more intelligent, and wanting to change things.
If we’re wrong – and that’s always a possibility – I want someone who will come along and try to change us to what’s right. Who doesn’t?
Laymond, a substantial proportion of people in the world don’t have the literacy to study the Bible on their own.
Rex, what if they come along and change you to what is wrong.
I believe that is what is meant by lukewarm. Anyone can change you because you are always looking for something better, or easier.
I have never been one to change just because someone else believed something else.
I never been one to be changed easily just because someone comes along with something “new” but I don’t think that is the problem being discussed here or the problem in most churches. Hardheartedness is the problem. It was the problem Jesus faced and the problem Paul faced. Sure there were some former pagans that Paul still struggled with to bring holy living in them but by in larger his biggest foes were the hardhearted Jewish Christians who wanted to insist on keeping and enforcing the Torah and Jewish traditions. In my ministry experience, I have had to deal very little with Christians who were wanting to compromise the Christian faith with pagan teachings/practices. Instead I have had to deal with the hardhearted traditions of yesterday’s generation that get in the way of carrying forth the gospel to a new and different generation.
Grace and peace,
Rex
Wendy, do you believe those who are illiterate will be condemned for something they can’t understand?
If avoiding condemnation is the only reason to read Holy Scripture…
Simply put, no, I don’t think they’ll be condemned for the results of their illiteracy – but unless someone in their community reads Scripture with them, they *will* be doomed to missing out on the richer and fuller life that comes from drawing closer to God through His word.
But who cares about that, as long as you’re not condemned, right?
Yes, that’s precisely what Campbell and Stone did – except that they didn’t (well, Stone didn’t – Campbell was not above flaunting his education a bit more than might be considered polite) demand that people listen to them because of their education.
And I wonder, Laymond, if anyone you converse with in the blogosphere has flaunted their credentials at you in such a way. Who are these masked men saying, “Pay no attention to what you’ve always believed! Listen to me, for I am smarter than you!” Who are they?
My highest degree is from McAdory High School in McCalla, AL. Believe me, I don’t want you to change because I’m smarter or better-educated than you. I want you to change because I think you’re wrong about what Scripture actually says and means.
Nick, I was not speaking of you or others on the net, I was referring to those who influenced those of you who believe them.
The founders, and professors of the CoC backed religious schools.
those who instead of teaching what the bible says, demean the message of the word, and elevate their opinion of an indwelling person within a person. In other words you are led by the indwelled spirit, and not by the word that Jesus was anointed, to bring. The bible, the written word that was influenced by the conforter/ spirit of truth, that Jesus asked his Father to send, and the apostles to accept. It seems that is just not good enough for some, who claim a higher degree of understanding.
By the way Nick, if you don’t believe you are smarter, and better educated on a certain subject, how can you claim you are right, and the other person is wrong? What you are saying is “I’m smarter than you, and you should pay attention.
Laymond,
Just read back over what you’ve said. Your opinion of what the Bible says has become the standard by which all others are to be judged. Why? What makes you so special? We’re not supposed to accept things just because scholars say them, but we’re supposed to accept them because Laymond Meredith says them?
Don’t give me “but it’s what the Bible says,” for that’s what everyone claims. In fact, you’ve claimed to know more than some biblical authors, so how can you complain that others don’t accept what the Bible says? You directly question the words of the Bible! You’ve done so here on this blog, questioning Luke’s knowledge of the Last Supper and Paul’s knowledge of anything you disagree with him on.
The ideas you disparage are almost exact biblical quotes, therefore your problem seems to be more with the biblical authors than with modern scholars.
Your charges are biased and unfounded.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
Wow, that would be a really sad attitude if you had to consider yourself smarter and better educated than everyone you disagree with. I hope that’s not true for any of us!
“but it’s what the Bible says,”for that’s what everyone claims.
they don’t say,that is what is says, they say , but that is what it means.
that would be a really sad attitude if you had to consider yourself smarter and better educated ——-
Tim, what qualifies you to be a teacher?
It’s not about smarter and better educated. It has to do with knowledge in specific areas. I don’t know that my mechanic is smarter than I, nor better educated. But he can teach me a lot about cars.
I could probably teach you some things about using Macintosh computers. Does that mean I’m smarter than you? By no means. Does that mean I’m better educated than you? Only if you count experience as education.
I remember disagreeing with one of my professors about the interpretation of Genesis 6. The man is a genius. He holds more degrees than I have on my thermometer. I didn’t have to consider myself smarter nor better educated than he to think I was right on that one point.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
“It’s not about smarter and better educated. It has to do with knowledge in specific areas.”
Tim , it seems things I say just fly right past you, because you have already formed an opinion on ANYTHING I say.
“I don’t share your anti-academic outlook.” My outlook only in spiritual or church matters.
I believe I said only in specific areas.
You said “I could probably teach you some things—- ”
But I don’t see where you think I might teach you, anything, funny, I have come to that conclusion myself.
If you believe we are led by an indwelling spirit, what part does an education play in Christianity anyway. How do you teach young Christians, who are led by that same spirit anything, concerning righteousness ?
Laymond,
Believe me, the feeling is mutual. You frequent lots of blogs and almost always write to disagree with what has been written, rather than seeking to understand or giving the benefit of a doubt. I rarely engage you in dialogue because it’s always done in a combative way, rather than out of an attitude of sharing.
As for teaching those who have the Spirit living within them, as long as they are still in the flesh, they will be human. They will not perfectly follow the Spirit’s lead.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
Unless the Spirit is speaking inspired words of God directly to our ears – and he has yet to speak those words to me – there is nothing with education, especially since scripture assumes and instructs preaching and teaching of the Christian faith. I assume that the Spirit is leading just as much in a university class title New Testament Introduction as the Spirit is leading when the word is being preached from a pulpit on Sunday or taught in a small group…and in all cases, scripture does teach us to be discerning but posessing the indwelling Holy Spirit does not negate the need to be taught.
Interestingly, in my ministry I have met a few people who argued otherwise and they have all been the cantankerous presence who wants to do their own thing. They all have also had a lifetime of quick turnovers when it comes to joining and leaving a church, which in my judgment is a result of their mind-set.
-Rex
Nick asked, “And I wonder, Laymond, if anyone you converse with in the blogosphere has flaunted their credentials at you in such a way. Who are these masked men saying, “Pay no attention to what you’ve always believed! Listen to me, for I am smarter than you!” Who are they?”
No, none I remember right off hand has requested to compare educational backgrounds, and flaunting is a little extreme in describing what I said. That said, I have never read a blog of a person with a “Masters, or Doctorate” that failed to mention that fact, in order to enhance their bona fides.
Not intending to pick on Tim here, but since we are here, and Tim is a very well educated person, I will use him for an example, and no I don’t possess a Doctorate, or Masters. but I am glad (for Tim) that he does.
Scroll to the top of this page and click on “Tim Archer” or “about the kitchen” No I am not saying it is wrong to toot your own horn a little, I am saying they expect that it will bring respect from their less educated readers, and it does.(wow! this guy must know what he is talking about ) what I am saying is, not necessarily, it depends on what he was taught. That is the cause of most true disagreements, Tim and I have really different backgrounds. As I see Tim he has promoted peace, and harmony not many demands. most of my life I have demanded obedience , even from grown men , because if they, failed it could cost them, or someone else their life. and most certainly, their job.
I don’t see anyone in these conversations saying, “Wow, Tim must know what he is talking about!” Rather, I see people like myself saying, “Tim has spent a lot of time wrestling with the meaning of these texts and applying those meanings in real-life ministry situations, so what he says deserves to be taken seriously.”
Laymond, you definitely have mastered the art of demanding.
The emphasis of course is on never read. Some people look at blogs, but don’t bother to really read them. Tell me, my good Laymond, where on this blog I tell you what degrees I hold?
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
About the Kitchen
Dec 23rd, 2008 by Tim Archer
When I was in graduate school, many moons ago
graduate school
–noun
a school, usually a division of a university, offering courses leading to degrees more advanced than the bachelor’s degree.
Tim, there is no sin in telling of your accomplishments, But in my opinion the only reason for doing that is to gain respect in others eyes. Seems I might read more in depth , than some others.
What was it the pharisees said about Jesus, what makes him think he can teach us anything, or something similar.
Nick said, and he was right. “Laymond, you definitely have mastered the art of demanding”.
That is the reason people hired me to go to places, and straighten out troubles in the oilfield, that most people would refuse. I could tell some stories, but I won’t, that might be tooting my own horn, just a little.
And that is probably the reason, I look at commandments of God as demands, not suggestions.
Never mentioned a degree. You can look all over this blog and never know what degree I have.
But you’re probably right, Laymond. I only mention my accomplishments to impress people like you. That is one of the dreams of my life.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
Laymond, your suspicious method of reading has shown us that you can’t tell the difference between a person tooting their own horn and a person relating their history. If you can read what Tim wrote and call that an attempt to “advance his bona fides,” your suspicious mind has carried you far away.
And if you take the commands of God with such uniform seriousness, while the rest of us only think of them as suggestions, why don’t you wash more feet?
OK, Laymond, tell you what. Just using this blog, tell me what degrees I hold. If you can do that, I’ll concede your point.
If you can’t do that, please admit that you’re wrong.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
I don’t believe I ever mentioned specific degrees, just highly educated.
Look at Tentpegs, most of the time Dr. Meads posts have nothing to do with his education. I love to read Patrick’s blog, why do we need to know he has a phd.? qualifications. not picking on you either Patrick.
We don’t need to be highly educated in worldly matters to read and understand the bible, Nick said he has a high school diploma, and that is great, my wish is that all children graduate high school, that said, just by reading Nick’s blog I can tell he holds a higher than average IQ and he has the common sense to use it well. and I place just as much stock in what Nick says about salvation as I do either Tim, or Patrick.
Actually Laymond, you only have to read up a few inches to see what you said. Sad you won’t even read your own stuff.
I guess that you are aware that “Masters or Doctorate” refers to degrees. But no one that knows you really expects you to admit it when you are wrong.
But I realized that I have been guilty of flaunting my education. More than graduate school, I’ve rubbed it in people’s faces that I went to elementary and junior high. Embarrassingly, I’ve bragged about this fact even more than I have the fact that I attended graduate school:
http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=127
http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1969
http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=2859
http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=3011
Some of us just can’t help showing off.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
“OK, Laymond, tell you what. Just using this blog, tell me what degrees I hold.”
“I guess that you are aware that “Masters or Doctorate” refers to degrees”
Yeah even I recognize that fact, I thought you were challenging me to say “in what” I believe I can safely assume you hold at least a masters. just by what you have said.
dang! Tim, this is by far the longest discussion we have had, maybe we should discuss your education more.
And all you can do is assume, because I’ve NEVER SAID THAT HERE.
Don’t worry… this discussion has reminded me why I don’t try and discuss things with you. I won’t be making this mistake again any time soon.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer