Is Ecclesiastes as authoritative as Proverbs?

Bible passageOK, let me dig up the old alcohol controversy that once dominated this blog. Because the main verses against the use of alcohol come from Proverbs, some of my critics have especially attacked my views on wisdom literature. Specifically, I was accused of dismissing the verses from Proverbs by saying “that’s just wisdom literature.” Hopefully that’s not what I’ve communicated, because that’s not how I see things.

But let’s step back a minute. Let’s accept the premise that we’re going to give equal weight to every verse in the Bible. If that’s true, why do the verses in Proverbs “trump” all that Ecclesiastes has to say? (I shudder at the concept of pitting one verse against another, but we’ll speak that way in this hypothetical exercise) Here are some verses to consider:

Ecclesiastes 2:24    A man can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in his work. This too, I see, is from the hand of God,
Ecclesiastes 3:13 That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil—this is the gift of God.
Ecclesiastes 5:18    Then I realized that it is good and proper for a man to eat and drink, and to find satisfaction in his toilsome labor under the sun during the few days of life God has given him—for this is his lot.
Ecclesiastes 8:15 So I commend the enjoyment of life, because nothing is better for a man under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany him in his work all the days of the life God has given him under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:7    Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do.
Ecclesiastes 10:19    A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes life merry, but money is the answer for everything.

Now admittedly, only the last two verses specifically mention wine. (And yes, before this comes up, the word “wine” here is the same word used in Proverbs 20:1 and Proverbs 23:31) If you want to be argumentative and claim that the first four passages refer to water, I’ll let you do so. But why would we not give equal weight to the command “drink your wine with a joyful heart” as we do to the observation “Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler”?

There are cultural and social reasons for opposing the use of alcohol, especially here in the United States. Let’s not bend the Bible to support those views. People quickly see through such mishandling of the text, and our arguments lose all credibility. Let the Bible say what it has to say, not just what we want it to say.

8 thoughts on “Is Ecclesiastes as authoritative as Proverbs?

  1. guy

    Even Proverbs says you should give some whiskey to a dying man. (Prov 31:6-guy crain paraphrase). i don’t see how much of the OT even makes sense if you try to read teetotaler-ism back into it. Why do the Nazarites have to abstain if everyone was already supposed to be abstaining? i don’t see how to understand people who were singled out for abstinence other than that not everyone was expected to abstain.

    i really don’t think that not view bits of the Bible equally is what is at issue. i was certainly raised to think that the epistles to Timothy are authoritative, but when you get to Paul recommending wine for the stomach, he *must* mean grape juice. i think once you have a commitment to an ideological tenet, your interpretations will bow to it rather than the reverse. If you take abstinence as axiomatic, then you can always choose understand negative references as alcoholic, and positive references as non-alcoholic. It really reveals more about the tradition you’re committed to than it does anything about the text.

    What i’d be particularly interested to know is just how old a teetotaler stance is. i don’t know, i’m just shooting from the hip, but my guess would be that you wouldn’t find much advocacy for the view before the 1800’s. Anyway, my point is, i tend to think alcohol-abstinence as a Christian tenet has way more to do with history than with Christianity. Have you looked into this, Tim?

    What’s really sad is how dogmatic some are willing to be on this issue based on a few passages they consider to be clear, but virtually no one is willing to take most of the Sermon on the Mount at face value.

    –guy

  2. guy

    “As societal views toward alcohol changed, so did churches’ stances.”

    Couldn’t help but think of Foy Wallace and segregation (or pacifism for that matter) when i read this.

    Thanks for the article–i’ll take a look here in a just a couple minutes.

    i’m concerned about this view, frankly, because it seems to me there is some positive correlation between the demonization of alcohol and college kids going crazy with alcohol once they’re legal to do so. Furthermore, the more alcohol gets demonized, the more bars or parties typically do as well. And i can’t help but think that Jesus tended to go to parties, and Pharisees tended to demonize them.

    i could go on, but i’ll stop there. Interested to see what else you have to say though.

    –guy

  3. guy

    Tim,

    Only about half-way through the article now, but this is really sad. Some of these text-book quotes from the Temperance movement sound like little more than the accreditation of prejudice. How is this different in character from early colonial European literature about native Americans as savages? i don’t see a huge difference personally.

    –guy

  4. Charles

    “Let the Bible say what it has to say, not just what we want it to say.”
    What a concept!

    Psalm 144 says that wine is a result of God’s goodness to man. Should we call unclean what God has called clean?

    Also, how did the early church always have access to a supply of fresh grape juice anyway?

  5. Tim Archer Post author

    Guy,

    I’ll uncouth enough to quote myself again. Here’s what I wrote back when I did the original series on alcohol on this blog:

    I also think that the church has made a mistake in abandoning that area to the devil. When the world twists and distorts what God has made, the church’s answer must be to show them what is right. For too long we allowed the world to be the only voice as to what sexuality was all about, and we’ve reaped the consequences. We’ve let the world dictate how discourse should be carried out, and Christians find it hard to deal courteously with those that disagree with them. We let the world have movies and television and are finding it terribly hard now to gain a footing in those areas. By letting the world define what the proper use of alcohol is, we’ve given the devil a formidable weapon.

    Much the same as what you were saying about the demonization of alcohol.

    I will say again that many people have personal, social and cultural reasons for opposing alcohol. Those should be respected. What I don’t want to do is add some Bible verses as a ribbon and claim that those are religious reasons.

    Grace and peace,
    Tim

  6. laymond

    1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    Phl 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord alway: [and] again I say, Rejoice.
    Phl 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord [is] at hand.

    Moderation, my good man always moderation.

  7. Charles

    Drinking alcohol does not make someone a drunkard any more than eating food makes someone a glutton.

    From the verse Laymond quoted, a person could get drunk from time to time — a drunkard is someone who is habitually drunk.

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