Category Archives: Women

My understanding of gender roles in the church

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Bathroom-gender-signOK, cards on the table. I usually prefer to present evidence then draw conclusions. And I still plan to do that. But let me tell you where I am right now on the question of what women can and can’t do in the church.

I believe that there are differences in the Bible between what God has set out for men to do and what God has set out for women to do. As Paul Smith expressed it, I recognize that my views qualify me as a “chauvinistic, knuckle-dragging troglodyte.” I recognize my position is definitely not cool, topples me from the pedestal of wild-eyed progressive, and is deeply troubling to some. (fortunately, few of them read my blog)

I’m open to discussing how those different roles are played out. I even think they will be expressed differently from culture to culture. But I believe that God has tasked men with the responsibility of leading the church in a way that he has not given that responsibility to women.

I plan to come back to this and discuss it further. I’ll be away from the Internet some the next week or so. After that, I’ll try and get more specific about my understanding. I’ll also wrestle with as many of the underlying issues as I can.

But for now, I wanted to tell you where I am. My request/suggestion is that commenters state their current understanding. If you want to give justification for your position, fine. But let’s save the full-out debate for a later date.

Women, men, and what the church is supposed to be focused on

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02forangeOne thing that worries me about the many church controversies, including the role of women, is the battlefield of choice. We spend an awful lot of time talking about what goes on during the worship assembly. That’s worrisome to me because it’s directly opposite of what we see in the New Testament. The New Testament spends very little time talking about what goes on when Christians get together; why is that our main focus?

I’ve already argued that I think one of the great mistakes of the modern church is its obsession with the weekly assembly. (See the series starting here) It’s definitely the modern church that has made this mistake, for our assembly is a shrine to modernism. From the time consciousness to the focus on study, the assemblies that most of us grew up with (especially those of us from churches of Christ) are steeped in the traditions of modernism, much more than biblical tradition. That’s one reason we’re struggling to get postmoderns interested in being a part!

One reason we don’t find more information in the Bible about what women can and can’t do in assemblies is the fact that the Bible doesn’t talk much about our assemblies! It’s a bit like wondering what the New Testament teaches about food preparation; you’re not going to find much there.

Years ago, my friend Bill Richardson was talking with a group of people who were frustrated at the lack of change in their congregation. He said to them, “Maybe you’ve done all you can right now with improving worship; why don’t you focus on other things in the church that need improvement?” He says they looked at him like he was from Mars. What else is there besides the worship assembly?

As long as we stay focused on what we can sing, how we can sing, who can preach, and how shall we take the Lord’s Supper, we’ll always be off balance. We’ll always be “majoring in minors,” as the old saying goes. Look at the people whose lives are dedicated to service, those who are focused on evangelism, the ones whose ministries do more outside the building than inside the building. Few of them are obsessed with the “big issues” that rock churches.

Just an observation. I want to talk some more about women and the church, but you need to know that I think most of the conversation is focused on all the wrong things.

Thinking about the thinking about women in the church

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nun statueBeen thinking about women. No, not in that way! I’ve been thinking about the different views Christians hold about women and the church. It’s amazing to me to see people try and group the views into some binary system: you’re either ___ or ___. Yeah, right. The only binary system that works is “You agree with me or you don’t.” That’s the only way to lump everybody into two groups.

Think about the different questions involved:

  • Must women remain silent in the church? Does this include singing?
  • Must women wear a head covering to church? Must it be a veil, or will a hat suffice?
  • Can women and men sit together in church?
  • Can women serve as deaconesses in an official capacity?
  • Can women stand to pass the trays of the Lord’s Supper?
  • During the assembly, can a woman answer a question asked of her by a man?
  • During the assembly, can a woman provide clarifying information during announcements?
  • During the assembly, can a woman make a prayer request?
  • Can a woman lead a prayer in the presence of a man?
  • Can a woman participate in a chain prayer?
  • Can a woman begin a chain prayer?
  • May a woman be called a minister?
  • May a woman serve as elder?
  • May a woman preach when men are present?
  • May a woman read Scripture out loud when men are present?
  • Is it right for a woman to baptize another woman?
  • Is it right for a woman to baptize a man?

I’ll stop there. Feel free to add some in the comments. I guess if you are one who says that there is absolutely no difference between men and women as regards church participation, then you can make the world a binary world. People agree with that or they don’t. But for most of the world’s population, and Christianity in general, the question is much more complex.

photo from MorgueFile.com

1 Timothy 2:8-10 (addendum)

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This post merely adds to the previous one, so if you haven’t read it, please do so. In the spirit of this blog in general and the last post in particular, it’s time for me to say that I think I was wrong about something. I think that I was misreading 1 Timothy 2:9. I accused most of the Western world of misreading that verse, but now I think it was me. If you haven’t read the comments on that post, please do so, especially the ones by Bob Bliss. He and I want to study this passage further, but my initial impression is that I was wrong.

I still feel, however, that we’ve read too much into what Paul is saying. His statement that he wants men to pray does not mean that he doesn’t want women to pray. When he says that older women should teach younger women in Titus 2, that doesn’t mean men can’t teach younger women. Paul wants the men in Ephesus to get together and pray, lifting holy hands (why don’t we bind that part of the verse?), without fighting. They apparently have a problem with that, and he wants it to change.

All right, citizens… back to your lives. I just thought I shouldn’t leave these things to the comment section.

1 Timothy 2:8-10

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All right, I’ve gathered my courage and am ready to delve into a couple of passages where I hold unorthodox views. If you’d rather not have any preconceived notions challenged, please don’t continue reading. These are the kind of posts that inspire the local villagers to gather around my castle with torches and pitchforks, ready to slay the monster…

Let me begin with some disclaimers:

  • No, I’m not promoting anything. Too many people want to start with the conclusions and work backwards. I’m trying to deal with the text. Only when we have fully dealt with the text can we work on the application. Too many people let what they want to find dictate what their study will reveal.
  • I’m presenting hypotheses. If the orthodox conclusion is correct, I will be thrilled to return to that view. Help me get back to it, if that’s what I need to do.

So, what better passage to get into trouble with than a passage about gender roles in the church? Or, should I say, a passage that we’ve made to be about gender roles in the church. Let’s look at 1 Timothy 2:8-10:

“I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.” (ESV)

Many people feel that Paul, in this passage is telling us who can pray in public and who can’t. My belief is that he’s talking about what and not who. Here’s why:

  1. What if this passage said, “I desire that in every place men go to church instead of going to the theater on Sunday”? Would we then argue that only men can go to church? Paul is telling the men to stop quarreling and start praying. His command that men should pray doesn’t preclude women from praying as well. Look at Titus 2:2-3; we logically understand that the older women are to have the same traits as the older men. Interestingly enough, the grammatical construction between these two passages seems to be similar. The connecting word between the instructions for the two sexes, “likewise” or “in like manner,” is used both in 1 Timothy 2 and in Titus 2.
  2. I think that most of our translations have allowed their views toward this passage to override their grammatical understanding. To help you see what I mean, let me quote from Young’s Literal Translation. Young seeks to reflect the grammar as closely as he can, and he translates this passage as follows: “I wish, therefore, that men pray in every place, lifting up kind hands, apart from anger and reasoning; in like manner also the women, in becoming apparel, with modesty and sobriety to adorn themselves, not in braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or garments of great price, but — which becometh women professing godly piety — through good works.” There is no verb in verse 9, only a participle. It seems that Paul is saying that the men should pray without quarreling and the women should pray in becoming apparel. A. T. Robertson admits that this is what the grammar could say, but he doesn’t think it fits with verses 11-15. I say that’s not translation, that’s interpretation. Besides, Paul talks about women praying in public in 1 Corinthians 11; why can’t he do it here as well?

I think that in 1 Timothy 2:8 Paul tells men how they should pray and in 1 Timothy 2:9 he tells women how they should pray. No, I’m not advocating women preachers, women elders, nor any outings on slippery slopes. I’m trying to figure out the meaning of this passage in 1 Timothy 2. Help me out with your comments. Save the pitchforks and torches for later.