If you aren’t reading Paul Smith’s Instrument-Rated Theology, you need to be. If you didn’t read his post yesterday, you need to do so.
Knowing that some of you are too contrarian to go read Paul’s post, I’ll summarize a bit. Paul pointed out how often we judge worship by how it makes us feel. If a song stirs our emotions, we consider it to be a valid worship experience. If the song doesn’t please us, we feel that the worship was of no value. Paul notes that this subjective observation is extended to instrumental music; some consider it to be valuable (or not) because of its effect on their emotions.
He goes on to say, “I suddenly realized that all too often we use our songs and hymns to create a worship experience in our hearts, when we should be communicating to God the worship experiences that we have had all week long.” Worship shouldn’t begin in the assembly; the assembly should reflect the worship that goes on daily in our lives.
Paul went on to consider sacrifices in the Old Testament:
At what point was the ancient Israelite sacrifice actually considered worship? Was it when the carcass of the animal was burned? Was it when the throat of the animal was cut? Was it when the animal was being led up to the altar? Or was it when the farmer or shepherd walked out to his field, looked over his group of yearling sheep or bulls and selected the best, most fit animal for the offering? The actual sacrifice took place when the farmer removed that prize animal from the lot and he knew he would not have its services to strengthen his flock. Then, as he watched that animal die he could make the connection (or not) to his relationship with God. Was it a fellowship offering, a sin offering, a thank offering? The sacrifice came first – the emotion could only come as a result of the sacrifice.
Good thoughts. I carried this thinking about sacrifices a bit further. Most sacrifices didn’t end at the altar. They extended to a community meal, the table of the Lord, an “eating and drinking in the presence of the Lord.” The worshipers’ enjoyment was part of the worship.
Might that still be true today? Could our pleasure be pleasing to God, could our emotional response actually be part of what God’s after? Or are our emotional responses irrelevant to true worship?
Ask any parent or grandparent at Thanksgiving or some other family reunion time. Do they experience real joy if their family is in attendance, but miserable being there? How do the emotions of the children affect how the parent experiences the event?
The youth retreat I just helped lead was trying to wrestle with some of these issues, based on the question, “How’s My Faith Supposed to Make Me Feel?”
i don’t know, i’m as skeptical about the focus on emotions as Paul i think.
Do you think Abraham was happy or joyous when just about sacrifice Isaac? Or were priests happy and joyous when slitting animals throats? Was Jesus joyous and happy before heading to the cross? i have my doubts.
i’m by no means suggesting that it’s wrong to be joyous and happy when offering sacrifices, but i don’t see why we should think that feeling those feelings is required of a God-pleasing sacrifice. i think in many cases offering a sacrifice *despite* one’s feelings may all the more evince the homage being paid. Certainly though, there are attitudes one could hold that would seem to taint the action.
These close associations or near equivalences between ‘good worship’ and emotion plagued me to no end as a teenager and later as a youth minister. At a youth rally or camp session, if teens weren’t crying buckets or going forward in droves, that somehow meant the Spirit wasn’t working and moving people or that we weren’t really engaged or something. –and you end up going through this sick cycle of guilt over times when you just don’t feel something you’re being indirectly taught you ought to be feeling. In my experiences, those near equivalences lead to more harm than good.
–guy
Guy,
An interesting verse: “Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the LORD.” (Psalm 27:6) Sometimes sacrifice could include shouts of joy.
I think that making emotion the center of worship is wrong. I think emotion as the standard of “good worship” is also a mistake. But any worship that doesn’t aim to address the whole of man is wrong. It’s hard to imagine worshiping God “with all our might” and not feeling something while doing it.
Grace and peace,
Tim
Guy, that was one of the conclusions we tried to share with the teens on our retreat – that honesty (not complacency, but honesty) is God-pleasing.
So if you’re not feeling “it” – be honest about it.
But Peter *does* talk about “inexpressible joy” which, while certainly more than just emotion, is certainly not *less*.
The point we tried to draw them towards was ENGAGEMENT – the idea that your emotions will naturally be stirred, that your faith will spur you to feel the kinds of things Scripture describes (the idea that if Abraham wasn’t “happy or joyous” we must be wrong about the importance of emotion in worship is kinda weird – happyhappyjoyjoy isn’t the only emotion!), if you choose to invest your attention and presence into the communal activities.
Be honest about what you’re feeling.
Don’t be complacent – there’s a difference between saying, “God – I’m frustrated!” and “God, I’m frustrated, I’m always gonna be frustrated, that’s just the way things are.”
Engage!
The worship of the One True God, as described throughout Scripture, inspired a broad spectrum of emotions expressed by the worshipers. Our worship elicits next-to-no emotion expressed by the worshipers, and this difference between then and now doesn’t seem to bother anyone.
Tim,
“But any worship that doesn’t aim to address the whole of man is wrong.”
Now that’s an interesting topic altogether, isn’t it?
Even if not every CoC congregation bears this out, the CoC’s heritage is partly Scottish Presbyterian which (at least stereotypically) is interested in little more than ‘four walls and a sermon.’ That certainly suggests to me a view of man as little more than a data processor made of meat.
i agree, holistic is the way to go, and in my view, the divisions and compartmentalizing of the ‘parts’ of man is likely more a product of Plato and/or the Enlightenment than Scripture. My only beef is that, as you’ve already stated, i don’t think ‘holistic’ will amount to something like visibly-emotionally-expressive = more spiritual. But i’ve heard people even in the CoC talk like that for years. “If we really loved God more, we’d be more joyous in our worship”–where “joyous” suggests more visibly happy. This seems to me just as mistaken as the opposite view that “reverence” = emotional restraint and suppression of expression.
i know it may sound like i’m making heavy weather over nothing, but to be candid, these ideas have been very psychologically damaging to some people and have equated to dollars and hours in therapeutic treatments and heartache, alienation, and guilt in divine and human relationships. It’s definitely a big deal as far as i’m concerned.
–guy
Why then, when we sing, “There Is Sunshine In My Soul Today!” does the songleader usually see nothing but frowns?
I don’t disagree with any particular point you’re making, Guy. It is dissonance – the conflict between what our words are saying and what our nonverbals are communicating – and lack of engagement that concern me.
Nick,
Yes, a huge dose of authenticity is what needs to be nurtured. Many of the CoC’s i’ve been involved with seemed to have a sort of systematic culture of hypocrisy–not as in “i judge you by standards i don’t live up to” (although some places certainly have that problem as well), but more importantly i think, “we all have to pretend we don’t have problems or sinful struggles.” Or if and when we do, we have to keep everyone at arm’s length and talk about our problems in coded ways that maintains distance between us and others.
“the idea that your emotions will naturally be stirred, that your faith will spur you to feel the kinds of things Scripture describes”
i agree with what you’re saying here in principle, but i have to point out, Nick, some of us are just broken and messed up. Some of us have emotional faculties that just don’t work right for a host or reasons–abuse or neglect or abandonment or rejection or addiction or codependency or disorders or whatever. And so saying that my faith will lead me to feel x, y, and z can translate into a very unhealthy expectation on my part even if that expectation was not was intended by the speaker.
In CR, we’re taught to “fake it til you make it.” That has been one of the most liberating ideas for me ever. i’m still pretty terrible at it. But just embracing that has given me personally so much healing over so much of my past. i can do something, and i don’t have to feel what someone else expects me to feel or what i think people will expect me to feel or anything at all for that matter in order for that action to be nevertheless genuine and authentic.
Acts of worship or expressions of repentance that lack a lot of “stirring” is just the best some of us can do. And i hope other people with less emotional damage won’t be a stumbling block to our healing. i have to admit i’ve been both the recipient and the perpetrator of such stumbling.
–guy
You shall live the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your minda, and with all your strength. No aspect was left out. None was to replace the other. Totality. All. That includes the heart as well as the mind; the strength as well as the soul. Being contemplative isn’t enough. Being spiritual isn’t enough. Being living isn’t enough. Being active isn’t enough. Our goal should be “all.”
Now which one if these can we leave out in worship?
Can people distinguish between worship, and sacrifice, they are not the same in my opinion. I don’t know of any act of sacrifice being a joyful occasion.
If worship, or praise of God is a sacrifice, I doubt you love him with all your heart. When I do without something I need for the betterment of another, that is sacrifice, and there is no joy in that act, but seeing the result of that sacrifice , then is the time for joy. The sacrifice was worth all the pain.
Good conversation. I think Tim hit on something here: “I think that making emotion the center of worship is wrong. I think emotion as the standard of “good worship” is also a mistake.”
And this is *usually* the basis of evaluation today isn’t it? Yet it is interesting to consider what Paul (the apostle) spoke of as successful worship in Corinth. His main focus (though I’m not sure he would be exclusive with this) seemed to be for the mind to be engaged. First, in 1 Cor 14 he points out that the gifts we have and the worship we do should be for the building up of the saints (vs.3,4,5,12,17,26). Now along with that, and I think this is often times missed in our emotionally saturated culture and church, Paul wants the mind to be engaged. He speaks of praying not only in spirit but with the mind (v.15); as well as singing not only in the spirit but with the mind (v.15); and in v.19 he “would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others.” With this instruction Paul is specifically addressing the overly emotional ecstatic behavior that could erupt; as that was usually a key scene in pagan worship. But Paul wanted those believers in Corinth to be different from their own historical background and culture and the way to do that was to engage with their mind while being in control of their emotions. When this was done through the prayers, and songs, and teaching; and when it was done for the building up; then worship was a success.
I don’t think the Apostle Paul is writing that we can’t be emotional; but that if our emotions surpass the engagement of our minds, the worship can become selfish and empty.
Grace be with you –
Jr
YES! That’s exactly the kind of thing I was trying to avoid saying to the kids – telling them that they’re supposed to feel (and express in certain ways) x, y, and z in connection to some particular event or activity… that seems to me to be an unfruitful exercise in guilt-generation.
I know where you’re coming from – I have some “fake it ’til you make it” in my life, too. My wounds have probably made me OVER-emotional, and I’m certainly not free in our tradition to be authentic about that when we come together!
And when I talked about the idea that engagement should result in a natural emotional response, you have to remember my audience, about 30 middle-class white teenagers and young adults – none of whom (unless it is brilliantly disguised even from someone who’s “been there and felt that”) are in deep abuse or addiction situations. But even towards someone with those scars, I would counsel that numbness is a sign that healing is needed.
Like I said, I don’t think we disagree on anything – and I definitely appreciate your wise words of caution and experience. Keep taking it a day at a time, brother.
I posted this on Paul Smith’s blog earlier, but thought I would share it here as well:
As a preaching minister and at one time hired song leader (cantor, worship leader, etc.) I tend to think there is or should be a combination of emotion that motivates singing (worship) and emotion stirred by corporate singing. Let me see if I can expound:
Ideally we should each come to worship to express our praise to God for what He is doing in our lives including the daily blessings, spiritual blessings, and especially the undeserved salvation that is ours by God’s grace through faith. When we as His children realize the privilege we have for God to call us His children that stirs an emotion that should move us to praise. When we see what God does for us, that should move us to sacrifice our F.A.T. (Finances, Abilities, and Time) in, but not limited to, our worship. Our assembling to worship together (God and us) should be a time of corporate praise, mutual encouragement, and celebration of God and Christ. Regretfully, that is the ideal setting and not always actualized in each and every member.
In reality, we are living in a world of cares. A world that pulls us in a multiplicity of directions that drain our energy, time, ability, and finances. In reality, many come to worship drained of emotion and looking for light. A corporate worship has potential to bring us from lethargy to praise as the “experience” of worshiping along side others impacts our emotion. Maybe that is why we are to speak to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Maybe that is why the Hebrew writer says that neglecting assembly is wrong and that assembling can stir us up (provoke us) to love and good works.
I do not think this is an either-or situation but both. in worship we both bring our emotions to our praise of God and Christ and we stir up each others emotions by our praise of God and Christ.
Just my musings.
Laymond,
Don’t you think that part of our difficulty in imagining sacrifice as joyous is the fact that we separate the altar and the table? For them, many sacrifices included a huge community meal. We just think about the animal being killed.
Grace and peace,
Tim
I have experienced a decidedly bizarre feeling – having my blog (which existed in relative obscurity) highlighted by Tim. But, Tim, thank you so very much. Every once in a while a blind squirrel finds a nut, and even though my thoughts in that post were really “off the cuff” and written while trying to get my daughter off to bed, it seems to have touched a nerve.
I have greatly appreciated the conversation, and I think this conversation is exactly what we need to be having – beyond the limited question of singing/instrumental music, etc. I could echo so many of the comments above, but to avoid missing any I will just say I appreciate all of them.
In my experience with the Church of Christ, we have been basically “non-liturgical” in the sense that worship was just supposed to “happen” and not be planned. But, unplanned also means that we have not thought deeply and theologically about what worship entails (my reaction only! Your mileage may vary!). Thus, when questions arise concerning worship we flip to our favorite verse, or as Tim points out, our favorite quote from a trusted church father, and we look no further. In one sense that has been a strength, but it has also had a decided negative result as well. We just have not been trained to process this question on a level deeper than a surface level.
I shall repair to my knot-hole and commence searching for another nut.
Nick,
Thanks for the encouragement. i need it. Others do as well.
But please remember, i was one of those “middle-class white teenagers and young adults.” And in every congregation where i did full-time youth ministry, there were serious problems even among the middle-class whites (some of which i never suspected or even learned of until after i had already left the congregation). So i just encourage you to be careful about saying “none” of them have these issues.
“My wounds have probably made me OVER-emotional, and I’m certainly not free in our tradition to be authentic about that when we come together!”
Boy, i couldn’t agree more. i’ve always left CR meetings thinking, ‘why isn’t church more like this?’
–guy
Paul,
Just keep coming over here… there’s lots of nuts on my blog! (says the nut in chief)
I hope people explore your blog a bit. You always make me think.
Grace and peace,
Tim
Hebrews 13:15 (KJV), Laymond:
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
It doesn’t sound to me like anyone is denying emotions on this thread. Just questioning how much importance and what place.
I have had people say it feels good to me and so I do it. Well that is an emotion. The woman was having an affair and was planning on abandoning her family. I could never move her past how she felt about it. Our flesh is broken by sin and emotions and feelings can be false. There have been times where I felt someone was angry with me but I discovered later that was not true. Should I be guided by emotions?
I think everyone would say no. Well so there must be an order of importance then? James calls us to ask for wisdom in James 1. Is there any relevance that he doesn’t tell us to ask for a better experience or emotions?
Romans 12:2 calls us to renew our mind. I think Romans 7 & 8 warn us about what controls our mind.
This one hits close to home. Why do people insist on measuring worship by how it makes them feel and without any concern for others? One person raises hands while another is moved to bow his head. Each experiences emotions but I have had worship measured by how many hands are up.
What about personal worship time? My favorite worship and most emotional is when I am alone with God. Better because I’m not asking anyone else to conform to my style and better because it is clearly focused on God. I don’t expect everyone else to do it like me.
The gathering of believers is to encourage others. There are actually emotions involved in that if your heart is aimed outside of yourself. Can I get emotional when I see an older sister in Christ singing one of her cherished hymns? I think I should.
I’m not sure it is really about emotions but about selfishness and in my experience it was always about what moves me. We jumped the shark several years ago and are now seeing the fruit of those decisions.
We make a giant leap that since I was moved everyone else was and worship was great. Paul talking about the Lord’s Supper said don’t leave your brother behind. Maybe the problem is we expect Sunday worship to do something it was never intended to do. Rejuvenate us for the week at hand instead of a celebration of what God has done during the week.
But Darin, it’s the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK! it doesn’t have anything to do with last week! #sarcasm #frustration
I agree with you about unhealthy worship expectations, and ESPECIALLY about the individualized perception of worship being unhealthy too. I hadn’t thought of how you used 1 Cor 11 in that context, but that’s a fantastic point.
Nick Gill says:
February 8, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Hebrews 13:15 (KJV), Laymond:
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
Nick, as we see in scripture, praise of God can be a sacrifice, and a great one, depending on where you stand when doing so, but that should not matter to a true Christian we still should praise God continually.
But I doubt praising God in the presents of fellow Christians is a sacrifice.
Tim, what I was trying to get across, (probably another instance where I could have done better) is this, the act of sacrifice should not be a joyous occasion, if it is how would it be a sacrifice. Usually, not always, the sacrifice of one gives rise to a joyous occasion for another. As we see in scripture Jesus did not go to the cross in a jubilant manner, he went in a reluctant manner, but he went, that is sacrifice. If I decide to not buy a new pickup this year, so I can send my grandson to college, the sacrifice is not a joyous occasion, but the result is.
Nick, I like you even though you pummel me in Words with Friends.
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. Actually… I had a conversation with my teenage daughter last night. We both agreed that often times church music performance seems designed to bring out or manipulate emotions. Granted music stimulates our sense of hearing and can flood our mind with memories and emotions. Smell and taste can have the same impact as well as other senses can. Emotional triggers can be pleasant or negative from our senses. However the element my daughter and I discussed was about interpretting the emotional response as the Holy Spirit. We both agreed these are not the same and she should not feel shame in not feeling what others seem to feel during the music.