I’ll continue the series on non-participation soon, but I’m not quite ready to do that.
In the meantime, I wanted to share something that has troubled me at times. It came up again this Memorial Day. When talking about soldiers and their sacrifices, people like to quote John 15:13—”Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.”
It’s hard for me to connect the words of a man going to die on a cross with what soldiers do. One gave himself willingly over to his enemies; one prefers to see his enemies die rather than die himself. One died not only on behalf of his friends but also on behalf of his enemies (which would be us, according to Romans 5:10); it’s almost a given that soldiers work off of an us/them mentality.
As far as laying down one’s life, I rarely see soldiers choosing to give up their lives. Admittedly, they choose to risk their lives. But apart from suicide attacks, like the kamikaze pilots in WWII, few soldiers go into battle planning to lay down their lives.
It seems to me that using these words in this way ignores most of what Jesus was trying to say. Or am I wrong?
Tim….I respectfully disagree with you. I do not believe the men and women who serve prefer to kill….that is so very wrong. The majority of these individuals do it because they love this country and the freedoms it affords them. They would like everyone to have these same privileges. There motives are not to kill in most cases, they are to protect those who cannot protect themselves, from their own governments. If we let these terrorists and dictators persecute and oppress their people as they have been, all doors will be closed for every form of humanitarian aid and especially for the spread of the gospel….the opportunity will be gone forevermore.
The verse may not be appropriate on some levels, but I understand why it is used. I have visited soldiers who have been wounded and will spend months and years recuperating. They are not killing machines, they are people trying to make this world a safer place for their families and their fellow man. I for one appreciate their efforts and pray for them and for the families of those who have lost their lives in service to our country. Freedom is not free!!!
Maybe I worded that poorly. I’m glad you pointed that out Susan. What I meant to say is that given the choice between their own survival and the survival of their enemies, they would rather survive. Maybe that expresses it better.
The vast majority of soldiers are not killing machines. One relative of mine wrestled for years with the pain of having killed a man during World War 2.
Freedom is not free. But we have to remember that it is not only our soldiers who have paid the price for our freedom. When we make Memorial Day a tribute to all those who have died in war, then it will make sense to me.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
One of my favorite quotes is: Many died to give us freedom. One died to set us free.
I do think we need to be careful with the proof-texting. I’ve been accused of that here and there. However, you’re right. There is a difference between a job that our wonderful and brave military have chosen (I applaud them for their courage and pray for their safety and quick return) and what our Savior did for us.
Tim,
i’ve had this verse thrown at me more than twice as proof that i was obligated to honor and reverence American soldiers. Though, as you point out, i see significant differences between what Jesus did and what soldiers do, and further, i’m nearly positive that *Jesus* was thinking about soldiers when He made this statement.
(Though i have to admit, i don’t think many American soldiers are killers in the sense you’re talking about. We have a volunteer army in America with tremendous civil benefits. i think a great number of people join the army just to have their education paid for, or just to travel, or just to have the medical expenses of their family virtually paid for, etc. A number of them, i think, join but hope never to have to go to war.
i remember seeing a spot on TV back in ’03 just before the Iraq war. The interviewer asked a group of about 50 or so these kinds of questions. Most of them readily admit they joined for the benefits and never dreamed they’d actually have to fight.)
–guy
All right, I admit it… I’m feeling a bit defensive now. All I said about soldiers being killers is that soldiers prefer to see their enemies die rather than dying themselves. I’m not saying they enjoy killing, nor anything close to that.
But am I wrong? Do soldiers say, “I’d rather die than kill someone else”? If so, I don’t see how any army can possibly survive. Isn’t the idea that, if it comes down to it, you kill your enemy rather than be killed by him? If that’s true, then you’re not “laying down your life” in the sense that Jesus laid down his.
I’m not trying to be disrespectful to soldiers here. I’m trying to say that those who quote that verse in this context are not correctly handling the interpretation of what Jesus said.
I do not agree with anyone who twists scriptures to prove a point….and I think you know me well enough to know that. Last time I checked Memorial Day was “in fact” to pay tribute to those who have laid down their lives in service to our country and their fellow man! We lost someone on November 13, 2004 in Fallujah, Iraq whom we loved dearly….his wife and his now 7 year old son would be hurt deeply at the thought that people do not appreciate that sacrifice. Memorial Day has a deep meaning for them and for us! If you could visit a military hospital… as I have very recently… you might develop a deeper respect for our veterans as well. Some of these guys were over there trying to assist the Afghan people to learn how to farm, there are female soldiers over there educating women and children in trades they can do with their hands…and some of them are getting killed and limbs blown off….because they get hit by IED’s and the like. They believe those people are worth helping and saving, and they are risking their lives to do it. How do we teach the people about the love of God, much less the sacrifice of Jesus if we sit comfortably in the United States and do nothing to help them have a better life? Who is our neighbor? I believe there are some bad soldiers, just as there are bad elements in any profession. It really deeply bothers me when all who serve their country are portrayed in such a negative way. It serves only to hurt and cause division. I love the country I live in, I have the freedom to serve and worship God in any way I choose to do so. I believe those who died in service to my country deserve my respect. I also choose to respect those who honorably have served past, present, and future. I do not believe the majority of them love war….but they also do not feel we can sit silently and do nothing to stop these evil forces. How can we evangelize the world if we sit back and let these terrorists take control? Tim, I know you feel very passionately about your point of view…..and I feel very passionately about mine. I believe in God, home, and country in that order. I believe that God knows my heart and the heart of every soldier who has every served….it is up to Him to judge us all……Blessings ….
Thanks, Susan. Again, I mean no disrespect to soldiers. We should neither vilify nor glorify them.
Grace and peace,
Tim
Tim, I think you know I’m cautious with this issue, so this isn’t coming from a radical. I appreciate your thoughts.
You said: “I’m trying to say that those who quote that verse in this context are not correctly handling the interpretation of what Jesus said.”
In context (at least v 9-17), Jesus is explaining to His disciples what true agape looks like. In this specific example, He is pointing out the correlation between love and unselfishness. The one who is willing to take on risk to himself (to the point of death) on another’s behalf is demonstrating a greater love than the one who is unwilling to take on any risk for others.
So, while I would agree that servicemen and women (for any country) are in no way filling the sandles of Jesus, IMHO they are indeed demonstrating an amount of unselfishness that qualifies as a “greater love” which to me makes the reference at least somewhat applicable.
Whether we agree with the cause they offer their lives for or not, their example should stir our thoughts as to how much risk we are personally willing to take for the kingdom of God. Sadly, often I fall far short.
Fair?
Tim,
I understood exactly what you were saying and agree 100%. There are several former soldiers in my family and every one will tell you that they had no intention of getting killed while in the military regardless of what it took. They will also tell you that is what their training demanded of them. The Lord Jesus came with the purpose of giving his life for our salvation and freedom from sin, not going into physical battle.
As for being grateful for our freedom to worship God, I am grateful to God; but I would beg others not to kill for that freedom. The only sword soldiers of his kingdom are to wield is the word of God (1 Corinthians 10:4; Ephesians 6:17). If they wield any other sword I would like them to understand it is not for me, or at my request.
The Bible teaches us to be ready to obey God (Acts 5:9) even when it is forbidden. Then and only then we may be called to lay down our own life for the brethren, but not the life of someone else.
Peace always,
Wes
Shane,
I’m still uncomfortable with the biblical reference, though I do recognize the selflessness and sacrificial attitude of many who have served.
Grace and peace,
Tim
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