A few weeks ago, Todd Bouldin and I had an interesting discussion in the comments section. (At least I found it interesting) Todd was concerned about James Davison Hunter’s assertions about Christians and politics.
Todd commented:
Believe me, even if just 90 percent of Christians took your call to be witnesses and prophetic voices of the kingdom seriously, I’d rejoice. I don’t see my point or your points as mutually exclusive. There is still room for the 10 percent of Christians who do wish to engage politics in their local communities, states and nation as a faithful presence — and I don’t see why why we lop off that sphere of society and say that we have no responsibility to it other than to stand outside it — and push comes to shove, to criticize it rather than work for its betterment. As an old friend of mine says, “You can’t clean up a sewage dump standing outside of it.”
My reply to him was:
As for being a faithful witness from within the political system, let me use an analogy (with all the limitations that analogies have). When you are at a sporting event, who is able to judge and evaluate the event? Who is able to provide faithful arbitrage? Who is able to provide disinterested analysis? The players? The coaches? The fans? No, they are all seen as biased and are frequently biased beyond what even they are aware. It takes an outsider, like a referee or an announcer, one who has no preference as to the outcome, the winning and losing, but just wants to see things done well and done fairly.
You can’t step into the political arena and then be perceived as an impartial voice. You can’t be a player and a prophet at the same time. You can’t align yourself with a candidate or a party and be heard as a “faithful witness” for another kingdom. (It’s an ironic term, since faithful witnesses in Revelation are consistently killed by the State). Did you ever notice that sewage doesn’t clean up sewage dumps? The outsider may step in, but he doesn’t become what he’s stepping into.
I feel that when Christians identify themselves with one party or another, they become part of the game, part of the political system. They lose the right to comment on procedures and protocol. Even their stance on issues comes into question; is this merely an attempt to defeat opponents and win elections, or is it actually a desire to serve?
I’d like to know your thoughts on this view of Christians and the political process.
Thanks, Tim, for the posting and for posting our conversation, which I also enjoyed and found interesting. I see both of our assumptions as different than the Christian Right and Left. Neither of us assume that the acquisition of power or the use of power politics to change culture should be a Christian aspiration or a Christian strategy for changing culture.
I am in complete agreement with your response to me. I would change nothing about it at all, and I do believe that the prophetic voice is certainly one calling of Christians in the public square — and perhaps the primary one.
However, I don’t see why our approaches are mutually exclusive. Some of us are called to be in the sewage tank, and others of us are called to stand outside of it and declare, “That stinks.” We need each other. It seems to me to be a total abdication of responsibility, particularly in a democracy, to say, “We’re just going to stand out here and tell you how bad you are, but we are not going to do anything about it ourselves.”
As one who has spent time in politics, I have appreciated the faithful witness of those who stood in protest or in support from outside. What I have NOT appreciated are those who constantly criticize but do nothing to change the system or the problem themselves.
As I said in my response to you, I think my core concern is that we not assume that all politics is dirty or an improper use of power. If it indeed is neutral and involves the same potential for good and for evil — as say, being a senior minister of a 1,000 member church or being president a business or of ACU — then why would we stand apart from it and not engage it or participate in it if we felt called to do so? I am just as tempted as president of ACU or as a minister of a church to compromise, to try to gain favor, or to modify my position because of the pressure of donors as I am to do so in politics. All human institutions require some compromise and some temptation of power — but I don’t think that means we should abandon the whole enterprise.
It seems to me that the approach you suggest (and that of Lipscomb and others before) can easily give way to constant criticism of government but no actions to help it and our culture flourish. As I understand the Christian role in culture and society, we are to help it flourish (the creation task in Gen. 1) and we are to pray for government leaders while seeking the good of all (see St. Paul). I think if we creatively look for ways to seek the good of our leaders and our culture rather than primarily criticize then I think I’d be less concerned about the outsider stance.
Finally, I wish to share a story to illustrate. During the 1990s, I worked with a Democratic House office in Washington … an “insider” and in a Democratic office (two strikes against me with some readers). As manager in the office, I hired a woman with a specialty in religious persecution and international affairs. The Russian Dumas one day passed a bill that would have forced all non-Orthodox missionaries to leave Russia. We were concerned that Yeltsin was going to sign the bill. In a few short hours, we were able to gather the signatures of 535 members of Congress on a letter to Yeltsin to ask that he not sign the bill. He did not. I certainly don’t give the two of us alone credit for this, but I do wish to point out that this and many other actions by our government would not happen if faithful Christians were not present when it makes a difference.
God always has used those prophetic voices who stand outside the sewage dump like Jeremiah, Amos and James. And there are times in culture where we must be “strangers and aliens” like those times that gave birth to I Peter and Revelation. But I don’t sense that this is one of those times. God always has used those that He placed in strategic places at strategic times for the purpose of doing good and serving Kingdom purposes — such as Esther, Joseph, Daniel and government officials that were Christians in the New Testament.
In other words, I think we agree on the goal here, and we agree on what to avoid. I just don’t see it as an either/or but a both/and. Some are called to stand outside. Some are called to stand inside. Together, we prayerfully and peacefully avoid the extremes of power politics in all of our institutions and work for the good of all.
Thanks for the good discussion.
but, tim, doesn’t that “standing outside to critique” idea directly contrast the scripture that says “if you don’t vote, you have no right to complain”??
Todd,
you make some good points, I appreciate the discussion, want to chew on that
Todd,
I’m really glad you weighed in on the discussion. Your perspective on this adds an important voice.
I’ll admit that I seem to have more questions than answers on this. That is, every answer I appear to find raises five more questions. I see the potential for Christians doing good within the system, yet also see the terrible danger in the church herself getting sucked into the maelstrom. Is there a way that individual Christians can be involved without the church per se being involved? Seems like a contradiction, since those individual Christians form the church. I still haven’t worked that out in my head.
I do know, however that the potential for good and for evil is not the same between governments and a business, a megachurch or a university. People pledge allegiance to nations in a way that they take seriously, being willing to lay down their lives, being willing to offer up the lives of their sons and daughters. The potential for sin by leaders within the different institutions may be the same, but the potential for sin BY the institution that is the State is much greater.
The State sets itself up as a rival to God. Sworn loyalties, oaths, pledges of allegiance… these are not common in businesses nor megachurches. Where they exist, they are rightfully viewed as “cultish,” as an evil form of religion. So why do we grant a pass to the State?
The time of being “strangers and aliens” never ceased in the Bible. Why would it have ceased now? Even the Israelites were to regard themselves as aliens when living in the Promised Land (Leviticus 25:23). When we lose that sense of foreignness, we no longer make God proud to be our God. (Heb. 11:13-16) And that’s an awful thing.
Some, like Daniel, Mordecai and Nehemiah, may find themselves working for the government of the foreign nation where we find ourselves. They continually regarded themselves as foreigners, as Israelites, even as they served the foreign government. That’s a model for us. Jeremiah told the exiles to seek the good of the city in which they found themselves, but he didn’t tell them to become Babylonians. We must never lose our sense of being aliens. We are ambassadors of the kingdom of heaven, in diplomatic service to the kingdoms of this world. We are not citizens of those kingdoms.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
Tim,
i’m with you. it seems like making political involvement a part of one’s discipleship runs counter to Jesus’ claim that His kingdom is not of this world.
What do you think of 1Thess 4:11-12? Do you think it bears on this discussion? Maybe i read that with great bias (and i probably do), but i’ve always gotten the impression it’s a passage (maybe along with 1Tim 2:1ff) that suggests a detachment from these kinds of ‘worldly’ affairs.
–guy
Guy,
I’d have to think about 1 Thessalonians 4. I’ve interpreted 2 Tim 2 in somewhat the same way, about us not getting caught up in “civilian affairs.”
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
I believe that once I have “set up camp” in one political arena, I have lost objectivity and am no longer able to be an influence on the whole, which I believe is a detriment. As I shared with a friend the other day, I try to weigh the merits of individuals and not systems. A little different angle on the discussion — I have been challenged by well-meaning brethren to engage in “preaching politics” and yet have refrained from doing such unless it is called for in the text in the course of preaching a series (such as Romans, in general and chapter 13, in particular). While it would seem that there should be a balance as it relates to our involvement in the political spectrum, it would seem to me that ministers who preach such political messages on a regular basis are taking away from the message of Christ (2 Corinthians 4:5, etc). Besides…I tell people — why would I want to talk politics all the time…I get in enough trouble with religion… :-)
Blessings,
Don
Tim, I appreciate your very helpful balance and corrective on the “strangers and aliens” aspects of our Kingdom presence. I couldn’t agree more that this remains a part of our identity as Kingdom citizens — perhaps our primary identity.
However, I disagree with the reading of Jesus’ statement that “his kingdom is not OF this world.” As I understand the possible interpretation of the Greek and the context of that passage, as well as the other teachings of Jesus, he was not saying that his Kingdom did not involve any human institutions. As NT Wright wrote of this passage, “Jesus is not saying that his kingdom is not OF this world, but that his Kingdom is not FROM this world.” That seems to me to be a very important distinction.
I want to think some about what you said on allegiances. I think the temptations of power are involved in any institution — but perhaps there is some important difference. I appreciate you bringing up the point, but I think we tend to dismiss politics as all about power while we overlook the power involved in leadership of any kind, as well as its abuses.
I believe this world, this creation, the institutions of this world, and the artifacts of culture do matter indeed to God and should matter to us. I fear that to believe othewise makes us good for heaven but of no earthly good. I think that is typical thought among evangelical and conservative Christians, but its far from the creation mandate of Genesis 1, the understanding of shalom, and the teachings of the scope of Scripture about our creation task. That in fact is the scandal of creation and Incarnation: that God’s will is done among flawed churches, institutions and broken creation. No institution is exempt from the brokenness, but I also don’t believe that Christians should abandon the broken places as too messy for God.
As to Christians becoming too obsessed with politics, I could not agree more. I’d love to see us focus again on those things that create culture like stories, images, media and entertainment rather than those forces that are downstream from culture like politics and law. And we should be the best at telling stories because we have a great Story to tell!
Todd,
Interestingly enough, I don’t think I’ve ever referred to John 18:36 on this blog. I can’t find it in posts nor comments that I’ve made. No reason for that… even I’m surprised by the fact. That’s just to point out that no certain translation of that verse has a major impact on my thinking.
I will grant that prepositions can be difficult to translate with exactitude, and the end of John 18:36 uses the idea of “my kingdom is from….” I don’t see the distinction as being that important; the fact that Jesus’ kingdom is from another place is given as an explanation as to why his followers don’t fight. His kingdom is not like earthly kingdoms. It breaks into this world rather than growing out of it.
As for the statement “he was not saying that his Kingdom did not involve any human institutions,” I guess I’d want to know a bit more what you have in mind by human institutions and in what way you envision them being involved in Jesus’ kingdom.
I like your last two paragraphs. I still have Hunter’s book on my brain, and I feel like you make his point more clearly than he does.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer
Pingback: Overcoming and True Authority « Fumbling Towards Eternity