The question of citizenship has come up again, this time in a group on Facebook. For some, it’s a minor issue. For me, it’s a major one.
The thread quickly spun out of control, in my opinion, and I’ve done my best to refrain from making it longer. The discussion is occurring in a group that seeks to focus on practical ministry issues, not ideological debate.
So I’ll post some random thoughts here. Some I’ve expressed before, some I haven’t.
- The Bible never says that we should live as good citizens, at least not of any earthly country. I grew up hearing that and believing it to be true. But it’s not there. We are told to live as aliens, strangers and ambassadors… and citizens of heaven. (OK, Philippians 1:27 actually says to live as citizens, but I think the context shows Paul isn’t talking about living as good citizens of Rome)
- Opposing American exceptionalism isn’t being anti-American. Christians should be pro-America, just like we are pro-England, pro-Afghanistan and pro-Mexico. Our desire should be to treat all nations of this world equally, since we are equally aliens to all and ambassadors to all.
- Yes, Paul claimed to be a citizen of Rome. I’ve offered ideas on this, but recognize that those who want to grasp at straws will grasp at straws. I’m a citizen of the U.S. by birth. I can’t change that, at least not as far as the world is concerned. When forced to declare citizenship in official situations, I don’t state, “Citizen of heaven.” Yet my heart knows which is true, and I want my life to declare the same.
- I won’t kill for this country, nor any country. I find especially abhorrent the idea of taking the lives of fellow believers, yet many have told me they would freely do so in the name of country. I can’t picture it.
- I understand somewhat the idea of country as an extension of family, as merely a larger community we are a part of. Yet I find countries acting as “the powers” described in the New Testament, coming to have a drive for self-preservation that puts them in competition with the Kingdom of God.
- I won’t pledge allegiance to a flag or a country. I won’t treat national icons as sacred, nor use religious terms in reference to military nor political entities nor their members. If I’m going to err in this matter, let it be on the side of avoiding idolatrous behavior. Let me be accused of too much loyalty to God.
- I refuse to stand in judgment on those who come to different conclusions. I’ve journeyed long to reach the point where I am; how can I condemn those who stand where I once stood? And I’m quite aware that I am a fallible man who could be wrong in these judgments.
- I won’t be ashamed of my convictions in this matter. I won’t be apologetic for making the choice to value my heavenly citizenship so highly that I won’t share it with other entities.
Lots of thoughts. Each of those statements could spark a flurry of responses in the original context, so I’ll post my views here. If I can’t stand the heat, I shouldn’t write in The Kitchen.
Amen. Sounds like Bible to me. The renewing of the mind is a long process, but by no means automatic. May the Lord speed us all in the journey to His likeness.
I am almost with you, if not totally in agreement with your thoughts.
I realize I need to be calm and patient with those who get upset with my views, b/c at worst they believe me to be a “bad American”. I am okay with that.
Ditto what Vern said. The thought occurred to me as I read the opening paragraphs of your post about the time God told Jeremiah twice not to pray for the people of Israel (7:16, 11:14) and yet he was to pray for the city into which the Israelites were sent into exile (29:7). It seems to me that we should spend far more time and energy praying for and seeking the good of God’s people, rather than attempting to limit God’s love and protection over a group of people simply because they were born on one piece of dirt as opposed to another piece of dirt.
Paul
Tim: You put it so well. I realized a while back that I had misplaced priorities when I could get a lump in my throat watching American Olympians getting their medals with the National Anthem playing but not when I thought if Christ on the cross.
Well said.
Tim, I believe you can be proud of ” AMERICA ” without offending ” GOD ” or his kingdom on this earth. I am an old man now and I would not hesitate to pick up my musket once more and defend that Old Flag to the death. Because I know what that old flag stands for, around the world people know what America stands for. FREEDOM not only the freedom of American citizens, but freedom of God’s children around this world. We the people of America have freed more of God’s people from slavery than Moses could have thought of doing. We have given more lives for the purpose of freedom, than Moses saved. Young men and women do not join the military, for the glory , and certainly not for the money. they join to watch over God’s earth, and keep it a safe place for those who follow in the path they blazed. I don’t worship at the feet of but one being, God Almighty. but I am very proud of all those who laid down their life for others.
Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Thanks for the example, Laymond. Using a text that talks about the sacrifice of Jesus and applying it to soldiers who go into battle to kill others. Or should I assume that every soldier who didn’t die in battle failed in his attempt to lay down his life?
Not disrespecting the soldiers. I just shudder at the misuse of God’s word.
We can respect what men have done without making them out to be messiahs.
I wrote about this before: http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/no-greater-love/
killing others for a “blessing” that God has never promised any of us.
freedom, now there’s an idol for ya
Tim, every soldier that goes into battle, lays his or her life on the line, just because it was not taken, don’t mean they didn’t lay it on the table. In my opinion that is as close as a man can come to doing what Jesus did. Jesus knew that he was going to die for sinners, soldiers know they stand a good chance of dying for people they have never saw, and probably never will, and both go into the battle knowing the people they die for will probably never understand it or appreciate it. But the few who will, make it worth the sacrifice.
You can take up a gun or you can lay down your life. You can’t do both.
And again, it borders on blasphemy to take a statement about Jesus’ death and apply it to men marching into battle. Do we have to dishonor the cross in order to honor men?
“Do we have to dishonor the cross in order to honor men?”
You seem to think so, I don’t.
Laymond,
You’ve taken a passage about the sacrifice of Christ, ripped it from its context, and twisted the meaning to apply it to men waging the wars of this world.
I’m not the one seeking to dishonor what Christ has done.
But hey, as long as we can glorify America in the process, who cares, right?
Tim, if I were you I wouldn’t be paying my hard earned money in taxes in order to support this evil country. And it’s evil rulers. You might want to support Cuba, I am sure they would do better. But you might want to try another country before you give up your citizenship.
Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
Laymond,
You again perfectly illustrate everything I’m writing about in this post. If someone suggests that Christians shouldn’t bow down and worship America, another starts with the “love it or leave it” talk. Isn’t there a midpoint between idolizing this country and hating it? If I refuse to say that America is the Savior, does that mean I despise her? If I don’t see soldiers as Messiahs, does that mean I don’t respect them? Do I have to say “Caesar is Lord” to properly honor the king?
Show me in this post where I’ve spoken of the evils of America. Show me where I’ve expressed hate for America. Show me where I’ve bad-mouthed America in this post.
Here’s a verse you should read: “They said, “Caesar’s.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”” (Matthew 22:21)
Stop rendering unto America what is God’s! Give Caesar his coin; give God the glory!
Laying down one’s life. In Gk. the word for life there is not bios but rather psuche. A basic understanding of some Greek words would help most Christians if not all tremendously. The Lord is not asking us to lay down our physical lives necessarily but the love of self, the love of soul, the love of our own thought and mind and feelings. As this thread shows, that is impossible apart from the grace of God.
Tim, I don’t think we are that far apart in what we believe. What I am saying is we can give honor to our fighting men and women, as the greatest physical army ever assembled, and I know of no other physical country that goes down in history as greater than The United States.
I believe It is perfectly alright with God for a congregation to pray for the safety of our young people standing on the front lines of confrontations. I don’t think it would sit so well if they were to pray for destruction of the “enemy”, then after the battle claim we won because God, likes us better.
Yes I think it perfectly fine to honor men/women that glorify God . I think it is absolutely fine for Christians to defend their home and family, from both foreign and domestic threats. I am a citizen of both “God’s Kingdom” and the physical territory of this great country, If I had to give up one or the other, guess which I would choose, this is not a far fetched thing here, because we will all have to relinquish our claim here for a greater claim there. No God is not only God of this country, or this world, God is God over all.
if there is someone who agrees with the sentiments in the post and has artistic /photoshop abilities, let me know. I have an idea for an image that I think would be powerful (maybe even offensive) that would make a point